NERF the Stiletto Rush when Faced with Mines?

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If Stilleto Starfighters use their special ability to increase their Move to 100 should they also be unable to dodge mines

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Re: NERF the Stiletto Rush when Faced with Mines?

Post  blackheartsecurity on Wed May 23, 2012 1:44 pm

Its not personal, and a huge portion of my fighter fleet is stillettos as well. The reason they became such a hot commodity after the faux stilletto rush (Prior to that aegis, and sparrows were to of the hotter categories of fighters) that hit my freighters they became the way to go.

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Re: NERF the Stiletto Rush when Faced with Mines?

Post  Lief_of_FortLendill on Wed May 23, 2012 1:50 pm

Its a game genie code. The stilletto can't move and shoot. The fact the tactic broke the ships own rules and seemed condoned to do so meant it couldn't be countered, otherwise stillettos would take minor losses on approach, normal losses when firing, and then minor losses on retreat every three turn rotation it took to fire a single shot.

So if its called "nerfing" when you make a ship to make abide by its own stat block then yes perhaps we should nerf all ships.

The mine nerf makes sense because its easier to dodge a pot hole at 30 than it is at 80, but it also becomes a counter to what amounts to a cheat code.

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Re: NERF the Stiletto Rush when Faced with Mines?

Post  directorironsbane on Wed May 23, 2012 3:10 pm

<.< >.>

I didn't make the Stilletto, was a default ship, i made the Pirate Light frigate by slapping a mine layer on a colony ship. Crappiest light frigate ever, but tis was what I had access to thus had to make the best of it Smile Not sure why people with any choice actually use the pirate light frigate since they almost never use the mine layer thus they are simply throwing a freighter at enemy ships, but tis their decision. Razz

Anyway, back to the mines my argument is simply the same as it was above. When you are going a certain speed you have a certain amount of time to dodge an exploding mine, if you suddenly jump to a much faster speed you have less time to dodge it as your reaction time is the same while your speed is higher. It is only common sense that it would be harder to dodge that with less time to do it.

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Re: NERF the Stiletto Rush when Faced with Mines?

Post  MaehlHoldings on Wed May 23, 2012 3:33 pm

Blackheart -in space 3, other than admin, I was the only person to liberally use stilletos. Most of the free systems players came on board after the stilleto rush of doom. And I gave them their ships, for the most part. Its an unfair assumption to presume that one necessarily led to the other. Also, to date, as I'm aware, there's only been one or two classic stilleto rushes ever employed. And what makes them as effective as they are is how I upgrade them, not their base stat line.

Leif- as I'm aware, they've never not acted as they were written. They can either dodge like mad or attack. If you feel their rule set has been ignored, that's the fault of the narrator and you should being it up withthat person. Their ability to handle mines vis a vis other ships should be irrelevant.
All- ships don't rely only on visual confirmation. If a stilleto can dodge bullets, missiles, and other objects that move at them from close range, why should a stationary mine be any different?

So the question as to dodge-ability should be less about the nature of the ship and more about the nature of the mine. What is the mine? What does it do? How can it b detected by anyone? And what is it's purpose in the theatre of battle? Once you have these answers, you'll be able to more accurately describe how, if at all, be dodged.

If it's picked up by a ship as any other "bogey" is picked up, then rules apply, no negatives. If it's stealthy and only visual information is allowed, and can't be seen until you're on top of it, how fast you go and ability to dodge is irrelevant (I.e. non-dodgeable).

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Re: NERF the Stiletto Rush when Faced with Mines?

Post  UnityPrime on Wed May 23, 2012 3:43 pm

(The short version: I don't think there should be any rules change for the ship; the simpler rules are the easier they are to keep track of.)

If you all don't mind, I'd like to approach this (admittedly awesome) discussion from a slightly different perspective.

As a general rule, I prefer that the rules which govern games be as simple as possible. This goes double for forum games. Every time I need to check a chart or figure, I personally find the ultimate narrative flow to be a bit disrupted. This is tricky, considering the scope of the game.

I mean, look at what we have accomplished here. A collaborative space opera which has gone on for literally years and which has not degenerated into something silly, stupid, or childish. That this game exists at all is frankly staggering, when you consider the scope of what we have been doing.

Part of what I think has allowed this game to thrive over such a long time is it's accessibility. When I am writing events, or planning actions, I don't need to consult the great Thousand Charts. This is good. I think charts are boring. Instead, I focus on the stats of ships and characteristics of factions in a broad sense, and allow strategic/tactical decision making to win the day.

So, on the one hand I could see high speeds making mines more dangerous; but that becomes a slippery slope. What about the skill of the pilots, the accuracy of any "early warning" sensors, people marrying dogs, and the "stealth value" of the mines themselves? We could map out all of these things, but I don't think it would be in the spirit of the game. Further, even if we kept it simple by saying that Stillettos have a base penalty versus mines, it would be a hassle to remind new players of this particular and specific mechanic for one of literally hundreds of fighter classes.

Thinking about the physics is great, but I would prefer save that for the event writing when I can take into account things like moral, skill, and tactical context.
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Re: NERF the Stiletto Rush when Faced with Mines?

Post  directorironsbane on Wed May 23, 2012 5:26 pm

MaehlHoldings wrote:
Leif- as I'm aware, they've never not acted as they were written. They can either dodge like mad or attack. If you feel their rule set has been ignored, that's the fault of the narrator and you should being it up withthat person. Their ability to handle mines vis a vis other ships should be irrelevant.
All- ships don't rely only on visual confirmation. If a stilleto can dodge bullets, missiles, and other objects that move at them from close range, why should a stationary mine be any different?

Well, in Space 3 Stilettos were able to dodge and attack at the same time against the Quall. Remember when they managed to disable the weapons and engines of a group of heavy frigates and a super heavy capital ship in a single pass while avoiding all weapon fire from the escorting fighters.

Remember this is just a discussion with a poll, the Admin has free rights to ignore everything that happens in this thread. There never should be a time when the players can just vote rule changes, even if they are needed. The only thing we as players should be able to do is bring up our arguments about any particular subject and if the Admin agrees that something should be done then so be it, if he still disagrees it is his responsibility to ignore the complaints.

In the end we are just in this thread here to talk amongst ourselves about how we feel about certain topics.

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Re: NERF the Stiletto Rush when Faced with Mines?

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